e29340 发表于 2023-4-11 10:38:50

关于同步升降器的扭矩,负载率疑问?

买了一套同步升降器,也咨询过相关厂家,给过相应参数,推荐的电机功率余量也可以。自己也同样计算过,功率扭矩转速合适。实际使用时,却出现负载率过大的情况。

条件:同步升降器,4点顶升,行程250mm,速度150mm/s,提升重量100kg(含框架与工件)。
布局:1500x850(mm)



厂家:给到的计算如下:
直角螺旋升降器(滚珠丝杆)速比1:2滚珠丝杆 20mmP = 20
V = (N*P)/i
V = (2790*20)/(2*3.1) = 9M/Min
负载:100Kg V = 150mm/sec = 9M/Min 行程:250mm
L(功率)=Q*V/(102*60*η)=100*9/(102*60*80%)=0.184kw
SF(安全系数)=2,2*0.184=0.368kw
四台螺旋升降器联动效率85%,
功率:0.368/85%=0.432kw
Ts = 0.025Kg-M(单轴)                     Ts = 0.03Kg-M(双轴)   
Pkw=2*0.025*900/974=0.046kw      Pkw=2*0.03*900/974=0.055kw
P=0.432kw+0.046kw+0.055kw=0.533kw
0.533kw/2970*3000=0.573kw
寿命计算:
滚珠落幕-R20-20A2-DRSB    动负载:792Kgf
L=(C*0.9/(100/4))^3*10^6=(792*0.9/25)^3*10^6=23178.4*10^6
Lh=L/(Nav*60)=858458.5Hr(滚珠寿命)
选用750w是合适的

自己的计算大致是:扭矩在1.6N.M左右(2.5倍安全系数),小于2.4N.m,按1.6/2.4=0.67计算,负载率应该在67%--70%左右/

现在实际工况情况是:
4套螺旋升降器,导程20mm,直径20mm,速比1;2,配置直角减速机—1:3.1,布置如上图。
实际选用的是三菱750w电机,转速3000r,扭矩2.4N.M,功率750w,加减速度合计1s。

实际测试结果是:做了3套,60kg,90kg的
负载60kg的,速度为100mm/s,负载率是85-90%
负载90-95kg的,速度为150mm/s,负载率是120%以上

厂家不是大陆的,配合起来相当麻烦,所以想咨询下可能存在的原因(厂家只说是安装问题,不管了)。
现在零时的解决措施是,减速机速比增加1倍。因为节拍问题,当时速度余量留的相当足。








e29340 发表于 2023-4-14 09:49:57

我写下自己的计算数据:

负载转矩:   TL =data:image/png;base64,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3.89928555520789 Nm



转动惯量计算:
直线运动平台与负载惯量:JL =data:image/png;base64,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0.00101320709777996 kgm^2
滚珠丝杠转动惯量:JB =data:image/png;base64,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0.0000620466 kgm^2

连轴器转动惯量:JC=data:image/png;base64,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0.00015625 kgm^2
传动轴转动惯量:JD=data:image/png;base64,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0.000009875 kgm^2
电机转动惯量:查表的:JM=0.000128 kgm^2
减速机转动惯量:JF=0.0017 kgm^2(按照APEX高一个型号计算)
螺旋升降器转动惯量:JG=0.0017 kgm^2(按减速机计算)
总负荷转动惯量:Ji=JL+4*JB+9*JC+4*JD+JF+4*JG=0.01132564349778 kgm^2

启动转矩:TS=data:image/png;base64,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=1.19942554708752 Nm——t(0.45s),NM =450rpm

必要转矩:S安全系数:2
Tm=(TL+TS)*S=10.1974222045908 N.m
减速比:6.2
则10.2/6.2=1.65 .M<2.4N。m


702736 发表于 2023-4-11 11:22:28

未考虑加速度,还有摩擦别扭未考虑吧,效率也取的太高了吧

sgxap666 发表于 2023-4-11 11:26:15

四台螺旋升降器联动效率85%    这个可能没那么高

e29340 发表于 2023-4-11 11:44:58

sgxap666 发表于 2023-4-11 11:26
四台螺旋升降器联动效率85%    这个可能没那么高

沟通以后说是:4+1联动,单台传动效率97%以上。5台联动就97%相乘,得出了85%。当时也怀疑过,国内这玩意效率很低,不过外面的机械确实比我们国内做的好,不过就算效率再差70%的效率计算,也达不到负载率100%以上吧。

e29340 发表于 2023-4-11 11:49:49

702736 发表于 2023-4-11 11:22
未考虑加速度,还有摩擦别扭未考虑吧,效率也取的太高了吧

其实相关计算我自己也算过。加减速,转动惯量也计算进去了。那个效率是人家写在样本手册上的,就算差的多了,也没可能差那么多,我按70%的效率也算过,也是可以的。

702736 发表于 2023-4-11 12:08:42

单台70差不多

e29340 发表于 2023-4-11 15:27:09

e29340 发表于 2023-4-11 11:44
沟通以后说是:4+1联动,单台传动效率97%以上。5台联动就97%相乘,得出了85%。当时也怀疑过,国内这玩意 ...

我看了下,国内几个厂家的参数,这边讲四台联动系数85%,而不是效率。
另外我看了下螺旋伞齿轮升降机 那个传动效率,最高的一个是80%
按照国内自己厂家给的手册计算,也没问题。

e29340 发表于 2023-4-11 15:27:53

sgxap666 发表于 2023-4-11 11:26
四台螺旋升降器联动效率85%    这个可能没那么高

我看了下,国内几个厂家的参数,这边讲四台联动系数85%,而不是效率。
另外我看了下螺旋伞齿轮升降机 那个传动效率,最高的一个是80%
按照国内自己厂家给的手册计算,也没问题。

huangsiwen 发表于 2023-4-11 18:54:32

楼主,远离电机的两个同步升降器所需扭矩应该大于电机同轴的同步升降机。可以试试假设远端同步升降器所需扭矩是近端的1.2~1.3倍,看看效果如何。

斯文少弟2018 发表于 2023-4-12 12:09:33

开始以为是伺服转向器,最近刚好做了个方案,一个电机带动两根丝杠,用了一个单进 双出的转向器,两个一进一出的转向器
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