This guy basically has no experience, and you guys are completely training him over the internet for free, and somewhat awkwardly I might add.
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* Q/ W( w" h7 O+ b$ F6 o; JHe started out with all kinds of monumentally stupid ideas about calibrating his machine himself, now we can easily see that he can't even properly operate a 6 H: O3 s8 Q! g% |
' n6 K c( ]0 [cmm talk about programming one. 0 a! G/ s) ]0 k1 k+ P5 m* b
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I've sat buy and read a dozen threads started by him asking about ridiculously basic cmm concepts.
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Maybe I would be more receptive if he came in here from the start and said "hey guys, I know absolutely zero about cmm's, but I want to be just like
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you...can you help me? Where do I start?" But instead I find myself continually astounded by the questions he is asking. It is so compelling to read just so ; R5 R2 Y& ]* A, [% M6 f) j
8 P& ~$ K3 [& v& ~; Vthat I understand it fully when I get to the inevitable end of this story involving a major rejection and impending bankruptcy of some poor company he works
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; i/ {9 m2 {% j9 c3 _5 w0 }1 `' wfor. 7 Y9 m& S0 @" j" ^
' Q1 I4 J6 J3 j7 _, d; uThe only possible outcome I can see is the company he works for ending up in financial ruins as he "programs" a part and their setup adjusts the parts so
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. y P' c/ W8 o% O! [" a9 W0 ythat they "look good" on the cmm reports and they ship parts to customers, ultimately destined for rejection or worse failure during operation. I honestly
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2 Q; v, z9 O& c% e/ L0 xpray when I read his posts that he doesn't make something like steering or braking components, seat belt retractors.....the list goes on and on. * w: Q3 E+ U* P6 X% A% }
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+ M3 y- l7 {5 u& e- i- }/ D) M这一个人基本上没有经验，而你们正在免费通过互联网完整培训他，我可能稍微增加点难度。
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他从自己校正他的机器的各种非常愚蠢的主意开始，现在我们容易看出他一个甚至不能正确操作cmm的人。 8 m+ l# {5 o% W. S, \- a+ M6 Z
% B3 o% }4 m1 k! @: M我做出牺牲,阅读一堆章节并被他开始问各种荒谬最基本的cmm 观念。
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* b/ L, k8 K; ?+ R( M可能我应该更加接纳他刚进来就说:我基本对cmm了解为零,但是我成为你那样...你能帮助我吗?我从那里开始?但是我发现自己不停的被问的吃惊.我完全理解,当我得到这个故事必1 M: U5 L4 V7 D9 L; t1 Q" r1 K- Z
5 N( H3 y+ {( E1 u" e* Z/ M然的包括他工作的公司必然是非常容易被淘汰和即将发生倒闭% a+ [$ _( x$ |- V! I- i
" d- {% s# X3 I/ Y3 z" x我看他服务的公司最后的结果是财务破产作为他'程序'的一部分他们计划调整这部分以便他们在cmm报告中看起来好点.他们把这个给客户.最多被拒绝或者在使用中完全失败.当我
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+ d$ q+ }; {2 h) @, {5 U读他那职位的时候,我真诚的起到他不是做方向盘或者转向制动器,安全带....这个列表继续& _5 ?* A4 i) n, ~
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I (like many of you) am a professional fault-finder by trade.
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2 U7 c' `3 g Z) D6 z# K, ?4 e4 vLet's see if I can find any errors or problems with anything that Section has stated in his last post.
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Nope, can't find a single thing in error. I'd say that he's hit the nail squarely on the head.
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In fact, I've wondered several times in the past if this guy was really an experienced CMM geek who's just messin' with our heads, but I'm convinced that
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4 \6 M+ a- Q1 c5 i, i# a1 Nhe's on the level, which is quite disturbing. His situation could be used as an excellent case study about why CMM geeks should ALL be certified - JUST LIKE 5 V1 x& \" y4 D' [: \ O z4 T
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THE MACHINES HAVE TO BE!!!!+ T1 T7 @* B1 I) l/ A& v) B( J# A! Q
0 `: U- [" ^$ c- `% d4 z9 ~, ?- E2 |) ZAnalogy time: Why shouldn't it be good enough if a VEHICLE is inspected, registered and licensed? Why should the OPERATOR have be trained and licensed? The ; _: n( u3 l- f' {5 t3 l. {
6 y0 D3 C) q" k( h6 C7 E3 Ycar's just fine, and that's the thing that does all the work! The operator just goes along for the ride, right? What could possibly go wrong?
' K$ H0 H* N6 i3 g( i我(象你们中很多人一样）是一个经过专门培训对质量吹毛求疵的专业人士。 1 j" @9 `) D6 J- b8 {( }9 k
如果我能找任何的错误或的问题任何事，让我们见到那一个区段已经在他的最后职位中陈述。
0 Z! i u7 u5 v: m不，不能在错误中找一些线索。 我将会说，他脑子坏掉了。
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事实上,我在过去怀疑过很长时间这个家伙是不是真的是一个有经验的cmm怪人,他仅仅是打乱我们的思路,但是我确认他是一个卓越的人.这是不用讨论的,他的情况应该被当作一个
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( i* L$ L( U" M优秀的学习案例:为什么鉴定为cmm怪人,就想机器一样; g8 z" x7 b2 V* e3 p" E; N2 u- _
3 ]9 I, I: G! I0 t* v8 d1 @类似：如果一辆车辆已经被检查，登记以及许可，它为什么不是最佳状态？ 为什么那操作员应该被训练而且得到许可的？ 小车还好，所有的工作都一样！ 操作员仅仅是凑凑热闹! r- G+ {9 ^3 Z+ Z) L
. `! @9 h$ |! L; A# p& [ C，对不对？ 怎么会出错？
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i think you guys are fedup from me.i am really sorry for that.But appreciate the co-operation of you people. 1 t; T6 o$ U( I
GoldenPine
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嗨，
2 H# F2 C1 o5 N8 z; J; ]) P( g我认为，你们是从我这郁闷.我真的抱歉。但是还是感激帮助者。 : }) r. f% J {/ d+ `2 [
- X' l7 G; ?: P# M8 Ymy machine is measuring a standard ring gage 3 microns less.is there any option in the metrolog to compensate it manually or i have to add up in the results
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; _) R6 x9 ~9 G: Z# n! ^at the end?
2 B& b0 v5 U6 f9 K5 E我的机器测量一个标准环规小了3微米.是不是有选项去手动补偿或我不得不在最后把它加入到结果？
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Is that 3um less than nominal, or 3um less than the calibrated result for the gauge ?
9 C0 w7 ]$ _ s: a' M, S3 B3微米是不是小于名义值，或3微米小于环规的校准结果？
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" @# s) u4 T W/ L! N5 Nits the nominal.As its has been engrved on the standard for example 10 mm (+9 microns).cmm is reading it as 10.06 mm. # V! K. N% z6 k" t/ M" J
正常。如果已经被标定例如10mm（+9mm）。那么cmm 读数为10.06mm。 8 W$ O$ h+ p. X) D( M# V. p' l
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5 q/ w1 Q4 H; e7 r. {! A10.06 is plus sixty microns. Six microns is .006.
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. N' {7 E2 x. LPerhaps you meant 10.006?
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5 ?, _6 m* U; D6 S+ PIs your cmm nc or manual? If it's manual, my advice would be to give up and buy a real cmm. If it's nc then make sure you have a program to calibrate the
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stylus. Make sure the measurements on the masterball are taken properly. Make sure the points are properly spaced and contacting the masterball at the 6 |+ h0 B1 W ~0 V' ]
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optimal "attack angle". ' n) n G. e0 O% W
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Once you have a program for probe calibration then you should do some testing. Calibrate the stylus and inspect the ring gage several times. Re-position the / Z0 {7 }) F( s1 d5 |/ J5 Q% m7 h0 l( J
& D% v6 Q4 {! O% Tring gage between runs. You may want to re-clean it between runs but be careful not to affect the temperature. Then, repeat this whole process several times # u. w- W: d; `) s1 w$ I" E4 M
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(including re-calibrating the stylus). If the variance you see here is more than .003mm (i expect it will be), then the 3 microns you are seeing is noise. If
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# m& x! Z7 A" c6 }1 E, [+ {it's more than .03mm then there's probably something wrong. : ^1 k3 V+ E& C+ U4 U- D# T
- E8 U0 B" ~, l' ?If it's somewhere in between and you need better, if possible, try a shorter stylus.
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; c) o; q& a9 H9 U10.06是60个微米。六个微米是.006 。
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# y$ E" \, M6 p7 j/ u. }; F- a可能你认为是10.006?
2 a* \* f$ ?% {你的cmm是自动还是手动？ 如果它是手动，我的建议是放弃它同时再买台真正的cmm 。如果它是自动, 那么确信你有建议一个探针校正程序。 确定在标准球上的测量正确的。 确
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定点是以正确的位置和最佳的法线角度去接触标准球.( t$ ^8 m3 I9 T5 `" c
3 h, q z, `+ O. n" p6 M一旦你有一个校准测头的程序,你应该做一些测试.校准探针和检查环规多次。测量中重新调整环规位置。在测量中你可能想重复调整它但是小心不要影响它的温度
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然后，重复这整个程序多次（包括重复校准探针） 如果在这里你见到的差异超过.003mm(我预计它会）, 那么你看到的这3个微米是噪音。如果它是超过.03mm, 那么那些地方可能6 g7 n9 q, {. ^) c# L
$ h( c% q6 n% m5 i有错误。 - X1 j9 d+ |4 z) \' q
~# b' w& ]6 J; x如果它处于中间，同时你想更要的效果.如果可能的，试一个较短的测针。
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n1 m3 i% C+ E- ?7 [% C1 W6 F, p/ DAgreed Ken,) Q9 G3 ], ~3 j6 X( `! r! E
The biggest ball dia with the shortest shank length is always the way to go. A TP200 instead of a TP2 or 20 would reduce the lobing effect also, but I ) z ]0 g7 Z3 P4 `% ?
) R+ {* X9 C8 `% Z4 ~! ]- crealise the choice is not always there.
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5 x4 \/ H' \) U( J3 `I always set my alignment plane through the centerline of the ring ( cylinder measurement ) as , although these gauges are usually square from the cylinder 4 a- X3 y7 E: Y6 K; d$ a
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to the outer surfaces, you just never know for sure.
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The other matters to add up are,
9 o: O9 U R# z. Q/ R4 `- R7 M! Ithe uncertainty of measurement of the machine :
. i! O# K5 J: f; n* k2 F% Wthe actual calibration result for the ring gauge ( not the engraved size ): # a4 V5 H( Z# v6 O$ W
the algorithm used for the dia result :; v. I: o) D+ f' C2 [! d' Z
room conditions ( temp humidity cleanliness ) :' m/ G) k# u& |' T
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Good luck G.P. in finding your 3 microns. They're in there somewhere. " K4 [: r8 K+ e8 N& H2 A, [: Z
同意肯恩，
. Z2 [& ]* @ M. L: G5 Q& }/ U这个方法最好是用最大的球茎和最短的探针长度。用TP200代替TP2或tp20会也减小效果，但是我认为问题并不在那里。
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我总是通过环规的中心设置我的基准面(测量圆柱),虽然这些环规从圆柱到外圆面是非常一致的,单你仅仅是不确
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其他因素加起来是，
. m! y7 K" U7 {- W! ?4 d机器的测量的不确定：
6 r( l9 t: r) C. K2 v环规实际的校准结果（不是被标的值）: ( ~% {/ v3 g v' t/ Q- T8 l
结果圆的运算法则：
+ q# c, ^6 O' V+ S# W, Z' {; K房间环境（临时湿度） :# [! D) R# y' _6 t) m' l* I# K
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G.P找到的3微米误差就在里面,祝你幸运! 6 [9 v' @7 r% n6 {* O0 j8 u
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& X" g# K7 r$ v! gIs it necessary to align a ring gage beofre the dia measurement.I have read somewhere that we dun need to make alignment for dia measurements.is it right? - R+ Y; `6 D0 R
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在直径测量之前有必要定位环规。我已经某处读我们需要制造 对准直径测量.是吗？
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* d6 D) k; ^! f5 V" yIt's only my opinion G.P. , but if your trying to find your 3 microns, 5 m6 U- x/ [$ a c8 y$ N1 |
& j! r6 A* l/ Tthen use all means at your disposal to measure each point perpendicular to the surface.
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4 t$ l7 L( ]; n3 \3 [That includes aligning the ring gauge before measuring for dia.
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" d7 @. P" v4 B" FAs a matter of interest, what size does the calibration certificate say the ring gauge is ?
+ s8 E! ~+ `) F5 a( C c* {6 t它只是我个人的意见 G.P. ，如果你想尝试达到3个微米，
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使用所有的方法(尽力而为),在测量任意一个点都要垂直于表面。 , j1 o; G- ]) f0 o3 }( o. {- Z
1 g' w2 }- H% X( P9 i那包括在测量直径之前排校准环规。
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5 Y) Q, y# N4 z' U# s稍微有点好奇，环规校准报告说环规尺寸是所少？
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I would measure it as a cylinder. Set my coordinate to that cyl. & measure circles incrementally in the ring gage. - D! f t$ G! }7 ]! _" ]9 S& @
1 Q3 X o5 Z! l6 v* r" ^我会把它作为一个圆柱来测量。设定我的坐标系为圆柱坐标系同时在环规中逐渐提高测量圆
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You are chasing 3um error in a diameter measurement?!
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' S7 O* \6 V- H u8 M7 k' RWhat type of machine? Manual or CNC0 q! U* E$ z1 u- i% i
What type of touch probe? TP20, TP2, SP25, TP200: _, ?1 n' n9 y" F+ _9 y% w {
What length is the stylus? 10mm 20mm 100mm6 `% G. Y1 K# _5 i2 w
What is the temperature in the room?- {2 p- l' K1 [+ o' X
What diameter is the ring gauge?
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$ x6 P8 K- A3 f" u6 A2 ~Let's face it... 3um (0.003) is not a significant error, if you have 1 person standing near the machine breathing really heavy and the next day there are 5
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people breathing heavy it can effect your measurement.
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, _; V$ T, v: Q6 t A你试图测量一个直径只有3微米的偏差？！4 k/ q2 J) V. }, H3 a
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哪类机器？手动或自动# _. c; F$ C& C$ k. S7 p3 e+ ^
哪类探头？TP20,TP2,SP25, TP2000 J( } B+ r6 o6 `* _! G5 D
探针长度为多少？ 20 毫米 10 毫米 100 毫米
, ]" _6 k. @+ X0 _1 i2 A- k* L房间中，温度多少？1 v3 c6 d; z! ~6 ^
环规直径为多少？
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让我们正视它。3 um（0.003) 并不重要，如果机器的附近站立的1个人呼吸 真和明天5个人呼吸都能影响你的测量。 |
楼主: 吟啸徐行
楼主
发表于 2009-3-16 19:15:15
