This guy basically has no experience, and you guys are completely training him over the internet for free, and somewhat awkwardly I might add. / V$ `0 d# I- p7 [
* c: h1 i. P+ Z3 z% a
He started out with all kinds of monumentally stupid ideas about calibrating his machine himself, now we can easily see that he can't even properly operate a * @6 E% Q8 t- @8 a9 N$ R( O
$ C7 ~! G0 b- q9 ^$ t
cmm talk about programming one. - B# F: J3 G1 v* f& k1 v. Y
/ W, |, {8 s0 q: c! ], tI've sat buy and read a dozen threads started by him asking about ridiculously basic cmm concepts.
) z0 z" H( W* A
2 H4 D2 J9 c/ ~! w Y1 tMaybe I would be more receptive if he came in here from the start and said "hey guys, I know absolutely zero about cmm's, but I want to be just like
Q; ]& |$ M3 l7 h c3 o8 v! @: t ` M. A8 H$ T
you...can you help me? Where do I start?" But instead I find myself continually astounded by the questions he is asking. It is so compelling to read just so $ C/ G+ y& R- b
$ ?. D3 n: j8 o2 [. j6 Z8 B: i, d
that I understand it fully when I get to the inevitable end of this story involving a major rejection and impending bankruptcy of some poor company he works
" x, d) M+ \2 z1 R/ Z0 _3 m( U& F% w, k# Y4 W
for.
; D5 J* a z/ ?8 I, V# E& [ b! q8 ]
The only possible outcome I can see is the company he works for ending up in financial ruins as he "programs" a part and their setup adjusts the parts so
" a+ ]7 _3 A \/ G( a' m0 R! x3 n* u& V$ U8 p$ p. x. s6 R; M* s
that they "look good" on the cmm reports and they ship parts to customers, ultimately destined for rejection or worse failure during operation. I honestly , C( F0 P. M$ ?/ h/ ^% z
% w7 v( I, Y* C. npray when I read his posts that he doesn't make something like steering or braking components, seat belt retractors.....the list goes on and on.
- e7 i$ R" [9 E9 b' v
/ {! K/ \2 L. M6 |$ v8 h1 m* _
; x$ x# U5 W3 J这一个人基本上没有经验，而你们正在免费通过互联网完整培训他，我可能稍微增加点难度。 ) c; B( a/ V* l4 Z6 P
6 p- w w1 F8 R' O9 c- L他从自己校正他的机器的各种非常愚蠢的主意开始，现在我们容易看出他一个甚至不能正确操作cmm的人。
1 x9 B" @7 a/ P8 X
) b) I2 W( K% C2 y; X我做出牺牲,阅读一堆章节并被他开始问各种荒谬最基本的cmm 观念。6 j0 X8 k# q' N/ N! Z! o
+ P; t: [% P) x, D. s
可能我应该更加接纳他刚进来就说:我基本对cmm了解为零,但是我成为你那样...你能帮助我吗?我从那里开始?但是我发现自己不停的被问的吃惊.我完全理解,当我得到这个故事必
y( U! ]: ^) O0 l9 L
3 s3 q7 O) r# `6 j. t0 }然的包括他工作的公司必然是非常容易被淘汰和即将发生倒闭
4 i* m0 Z9 w0 h1 o5 z
: b1 @! D1 H/ m& r6 A1 o我看他服务的公司最后的结果是财务破产作为他'程序'的一部分他们计划调整这部分以便他们在cmm报告中看起来好点.他们把这个给客户.最多被拒绝或者在使用中完全失败.当我* m* T- R+ j, ~. a' ^* @
1 p9 I. N5 T; I$ @( M7 u读他那职位的时候,我真诚的起到他不是做方向盘或者转向制动器,安全带....这个列表继续
& U8 x' N: N/ V* h/ ~$ \
: @$ m$ J1 t- @. o- T9 m2 O p: p. H; c8 }, Z
" T" H& I# Y s
I (like many of you) am a professional fault-finder by trade.
: J4 H! N: {4 ~# \6 P8 ] g* S: i, v1 S
Let's see if I can find any errors or problems with anything that Section has stated in his last post.
2 Q4 h' q* _0 ~# Q$ `. \* X a: E, m) Y: F4 K# S
. H% z; u5 N o! t4 Z- zNope, can't find a single thing in error. I'd say that he's hit the nail squarely on the head.
) h6 K/ W. D+ R" I! c2 g! A" W3 a+ v3 E9 r* G
In fact, I've wondered several times in the past if this guy was really an experienced CMM geek who's just messin' with our heads, but I'm convinced that
/ N9 |" k# s; t! U: y/ L7 X
' }! H: U9 S% L6 m7 }( z9 @he's on the level, which is quite disturbing. His situation could be used as an excellent case study about why CMM geeks should ALL be certified - JUST LIKE # W! z! x( K3 j
* _ S" s" O9 Y" y
THE MACHINES HAVE TO BE!!!!
9 t4 K1 g# \1 ~" D% V6 s& o- @3 u- {5 n1 W
Analogy time: Why shouldn't it be good enough if a VEHICLE is inspected, registered and licensed? Why should the OPERATOR have be trained and licensed? The ) i9 p: H7 x6 H- _: _
$ J* |# V! T1 E+ vcar's just fine, and that's the thing that does all the work! The operator just goes along for the ride, right? What could possibly go wrong?+ ?( u, \9 ~/ i% N7 Y9 z5 q8 O
我(象你们中很多人一样）是一个经过专门培训对质量吹毛求疵的专业人士。
8 x& o1 }# e( y如果我能找任何的错误或的问题任何事，让我们见到那一个区段已经在他的最后职位中陈述。* c: H3 H( y# y+ j7 ^
不，不能在错误中找一些线索。 我将会说，他脑子坏掉了。
5 n/ z6 k: M# ]% d8 T6 l; W" l) t$ }4 V
事实上,我在过去怀疑过很长时间这个家伙是不是真的是一个有经验的cmm怪人,他仅仅是打乱我们的思路,但是我确认他是一个卓越的人.这是不用讨论的,他的情况应该被当作一个
' B/ |2 q! \2 `7 h# l6 {& c9 B/ j& v+ \8 c. n$ g2 ^2 {- i, @7 @
优秀的学习案例:为什么鉴定为cmm怪人,就想机器一样1 r, X9 U' T( w' J0 f4 m1 J& X* D
2 n. ?9 ?7 L" T1 k. a) c' f
类似：如果一辆车辆已经被检查，登记以及许可，它为什么不是最佳状态？ 为什么那操作员应该被训练而且得到许可的？ 小车还好，所有的工作都一样！ 操作员仅仅是凑凑热闹( X1 W' R5 i- d3 s2 \( e: F
# v: M$ O% u3 @
，对不对？ 怎么会出错？
( T- ^5 x6 w" E, {) d9 q
% F- K5 c* K3 a' R, l B4 u% o) W5 F$ ^( y5 a, i( k
7 |* ~6 g( G8 j Z& ?
8 n* A- s& b* ihi,# @9 w. B2 `5 n- F6 F( q
i think you guys are fedup from me.i am really sorry for that.But appreciate the co-operation of you people. 3 S/ l) A7 S5 p5 u
GoldenPine6 k4 |7 k, [5 X0 J
0 E8 V" M$ ^6 n
嗨，- ^ N2 r5 x9 ^) h* e1 W
我认为，你们是从我这郁闷.我真的抱歉。但是还是感激帮助者。
4 M- Y* s2 T: Q6 z) L) U9 T4 B3 @8 {0 ~$ w9 X# ~$ Z, t/ {( C9 ^& z
my machine is measuring a standard ring gage 3 microns less.is there any option in the metrolog to compensate it manually or i have to add up in the results 5 H1 |) l0 L, q9 @/ J% X$ ^
) q- F8 t/ _8 ~* `
at the end? & T# a$ B* I/ f0 h1 \# v% m
我的机器测量一个标准环规小了3微米.是不是有选项去手动补偿或我不得不在最后把它加入到结果？ 8 D* F! }) }. {( N
9 j" P- v# t. w3 U5 k# J2 o+ M
; B5 U( Y+ g, Y) i. W; s
Is that 3um less than nominal, or 3um less than the calibrated result for the gauge ?& u' Z. h( f$ V' p( K& o4 l, i7 d
3微米是不是小于名义值，或3微米小于环规的校准结果？
- \( @7 h% ]. | ! g3 @) r- l4 ~0 `) c
! e) E- Z% I; Q1 I/ @0 Xits the nominal.As its has been engrved on the standard for example 10 mm (+9 microns).cmm is reading it as 10.06 mm.
. A1 c Z2 ]% Y5 m& a正常。如果已经被标定例如10mm（+9mm）。那么cmm 读数为10.06mm。
! s, c6 l- x& H |9 ^5 w) Y% e( G
/ M8 U, c% L) X% ~
10.06 is plus sixty microns. Six microns is .006.
6 G# e5 b' H x! }& a
2 _& A- ~) b( f! r$ I! ^Perhaps you meant 10.006?# ] h. B/ T, W% K# ]
- m0 S3 i! a3 U/ b, w% B( MIs your cmm nc or manual? If it's manual, my advice would be to give up and buy a real cmm. If it's nc then make sure you have a program to calibrate the # B+ M: h% [8 q u( @; g
* A2 M& `& d0 W1 O: l2 A
stylus. Make sure the measurements on the masterball are taken properly. Make sure the points are properly spaced and contacting the masterball at the - p" l& n$ r' {- Y
* w5 l6 v# Q8 woptimal "attack angle".
. o2 y# @" ~+ A# m/ j( T6 Q) ]7 N0 X( D5 [; n
Once you have a program for probe calibration then you should do some testing. Calibrate the stylus and inspect the ring gage several times. Re-position the
$ |3 d& ~" A0 @
- m, u# Q- N" Gring gage between runs. You may want to re-clean it between runs but be careful not to affect the temperature. Then, repeat this whole process several times . W% U1 J' J! g' X
( s* y% _: k# L" h; ^6 @(including re-calibrating the stylus). If the variance you see here is more than .003mm (i expect it will be), then the 3 microns you are seeing is noise. If
5 S/ l" {- v# y% v4 h! q! k* u! t# M2 ]9 ~4 u
it's more than .03mm then there's probably something wrong.
: Q& r0 Z- a" B' c3 ~
" G) {: I0 }( S# Z# jIf it's somewhere in between and you need better, if possible, try a shorter stylus.
8 `$ @& O+ \7 |- y8 `1 T0 e4 \+ C% q7 J* T7 y
10.06是60个微米。六个微米是.006 。
; L4 U5 o) Q3 \
* n* m- t3 t | R' R. H可能你认为是10.006? h8 q% A# ^" @7 U, S
你的cmm是自动还是手动？ 如果它是手动，我的建议是放弃它同时再买台真正的cmm 。如果它是自动, 那么确信你有建议一个探针校正程序。 确定在标准球上的测量正确的。 确& s( s9 G/ M4 N5 r$ @
5 n0 p+ P1 {% V定点是以正确的位置和最佳的法线角度去接触标准球.6 P2 j9 L$ c U- H& a, b+ u
5 u6 W1 {3 m5 ?! [7 x' s- ^
一旦你有一个校准测头的程序,你应该做一些测试.校准探针和检查环规多次。测量中重新调整环规位置。在测量中你可能想重复调整它但是小心不要影响它的温度( W" R9 B4 S9 l3 l2 H
6 k, z, L% Z, g5 H! O
然后，重复这整个程序多次（包括重复校准探针） 如果在这里你见到的差异超过.003mm(我预计它会）, 那么你看到的这3个微米是噪音。如果它是超过.03mm, 那么那些地方可能
' M* L' `! I5 C3 ~; P9 y+ ?
$ t2 W' H0 d9 x# ~5 {: U' Q有错误。 : S9 i5 k, N4 A
# e0 ?% B$ y# Y2 Y- Z* E如果它处于中间，同时你想更要的效果.如果可能的，试一个较短的测针。 M+ m, T2 B. P6 e# m. h5 @
) J: `8 L0 y) r5 D- y# F
* {9 u" v8 O" d# l/ d5 y* Q. o
Agreed Ken,
) N1 i) ~; e, r X* V0 e# aThe biggest ball dia with the shortest shank length is always the way to go. A TP200 instead of a TP2 or 20 would reduce the lobing effect also, but I & l* a0 M1 ~( C5 Y* }( J7 u* M
5 w2 U5 u9 _) a0 L) Y
realise the choice is not always there. ( }9 D9 p- `& z j& I, H
1 Y) C* L! Y& P, _1 U2 J
I always set my alignment plane through the centerline of the ring ( cylinder measurement ) as , although these gauges are usually square from the cylinder . k3 [7 S7 y* _
1 a& j ~# t$ t3 @, x
to the outer surfaces, you just never know for sure. # V- m( \/ h+ \. I: z0 s# S" ~0 X
8 P3 n4 N9 D8 c# n5 C9 HThe other matters to add up are, # ?6 \* v& Q5 f6 w) p
the uncertainty of measurement of the machine : 1 O& Y7 @8 j4 q6 z( E/ m' ?) O
the actual calibration result for the ring gauge ( not the engraved size ):
1 {- p7 J+ w! e( o3 Ethe algorithm used for the dia result :
0 D* C2 D+ H+ ~0 z* x2 [- Zroom conditions ( temp humidity cleanliness ) :% C ?4 a! x5 N* m
5 n) E$ u4 y3 ^( k3 z& I: H" U$ k+ Z! }6 h
Good luck G.P. in finding your 3 microns. They're in there somewhere.
. M) B0 N8 |' Z6 w; j( x _8 C同意肯恩，6 }% o4 K, y# `+ F9 Z& `
这个方法最好是用最大的球茎和最短的探针长度。用TP200代替TP2或tp20会也减小效果，但是我认为问题并不在那里。 4 ^/ n: k; ~" [0 Y: V
" {$ Q) q6 X; H我总是通过环规的中心设置我的基准面(测量圆柱),虽然这些环规从圆柱到外圆面是非常一致的,单你仅仅是不确
, o3 \$ f/ ~, O8 S
& {. b ?+ M( ]8 N% d' |3 t其他因素加起来是， 4 s5 I$ Z7 s3 F1 [/ n. ~
机器的测量的不确定： 3 d& R3 H% R% v8 v" q
环规实际的校准结果（不是被标的值）: 7 _( a1 r @% G$ O* D* ?
结果圆的运算法则：
' T' V2 J( M" X3 z/ B, o房间环境（临时湿度） :3 [1 w0 h: `8 k( _3 s" O& p
& n. i- F2 l0 a& h
+ B+ l+ y7 @ E6 t4 \. }G.P找到的3微米误差就在里面,祝你幸运!
1 }4 T$ e1 S. {7 G' U9 |1 \4 `" ]7 ?& X0 m3 O
) q/ n" Y6 Y% }: } w; u
; r' N! a! H$ l+ }" }4 q4 {4 q) t9 f) b
Is it necessary to align a ring gage beofre the dia measurement.I have read somewhere that we dun need to make alignment for dia measurements.is it right? . U4 D) f5 V" P5 e2 F# ]& j7 l
* ~' s0 ^6 v6 k6 Y在直径测量之前有必要定位环规。我已经某处读我们需要制造 对准直径测量.是吗？ ) ~) S+ U. N1 M8 i6 `2 L ^
( L; M" K, p$ d, i
m! Q: {* B `, K7 X6 ~4 [/ T9 H' o! c0 H, M+ K! O
$ b5 O8 Y' w: C# s/ A) `
0 w0 p: C, G6 q1 F* }. w2 k
It's only my opinion G.P. , but if your trying to find your 3 microns, " e- E& p0 o* m
( t$ {7 Y& l, I' C7 wthen use all means at your disposal to measure each point perpendicular to the surface.
7 w# M; |% u4 h2 C# _! ~; |& L+ a/ H6 {- W; h/ k+ P+ U! X
That includes aligning the ring gauge before measuring for dia.# t8 C; b) i8 J* Z6 K
) g5 ~. E& U; T
As a matter of interest, what size does the calibration certificate say the ring gauge is ? ) c+ F; d7 x6 i/ Y" q! z# w
它只是我个人的意见 G.P. ，如果你想尝试达到3个微米，
9 K' g/ a; H$ N) n5 S$ O, j4 C! d; h! w
使用所有的方法(尽力而为),在测量任意一个点都要垂直于表面。
8 k' N3 |: n4 K5 K* B; W8 U; D, [+ _: w) ^3 x7 A( @4 V1 j
那包括在测量直径之前排校准环规。
$ K+ Y7 F' s! m! z0 S' h* g1 }6 B- z; S4 S# B. p8 S6 m
稍微有点好奇，环规校准报告说环规尺寸是所少？
, _% `; E( ~6 `4 z" D7 r$ s* Q* `
2 o4 T, ]3 v4 u6 m( @ SI would measure it as a cylinder. Set my coordinate to that cyl. & measure circles incrementally in the ring gage.
5 B8 U) f/ b# C+ U* @9 Y+ x
. p2 n9 H- |" P q7 d/ D9 U我会把它作为一个圆柱来测量。设定我的坐标系为圆柱坐标系同时在环规中逐渐提高测量圆8 K5 |5 z, ~! r2 {, L
% d u+ A$ h. m8 t4 Z
" i( E9 u, p1 A+ w- X5 ?/ D
You are chasing 3um error in a diameter measurement?!
" c5 D3 l F' w
% S! i& @& I) K: I6 z( b8 _What type of machine? Manual or CNC/ ?9 v" m Z" V. G" B8 i# d
What type of touch probe? TP20, TP2, SP25, TP200
, C( e# h4 p* Q4 k) ^What length is the stylus? 10mm 20mm 100mm
, G* d& r# `, |+ pWhat is the temperature in the room?- I, A/ G6 \5 S0 g7 v5 Z2 j
What diameter is the ring gauge?
& ]7 D' @* c4 t% U, x& [) v& x6 a+ R( u B( r& ~# v) o
Let's face it... 3um (0.003) is not a significant error, if you have 1 person standing near the machine breathing really heavy and the next day there are 5 1 I& Q0 ]1 v, X
) g$ l9 B: i- r3 B
people breathing heavy it can effect your measurement.
% t, @2 k. O2 K* T8 {! Y( |1 S4 C- d" n' S
5 K8 L$ W. W1 v9 W你试图测量一个直径只有3微米的偏差？！7 n( W6 G4 G) b6 d9 n; K( n4 p
7 h* t* ^( {$ ]) n3 o8 H
哪类机器？手动或自动
! y0 z5 v K4 _: N$ I- c哪类探头？TP20,TP2,SP25, TP200
4 m$ O' g/ h, H; X4 t, ]; r* n探针长度为多少？ 20 毫米 10 毫米 100 毫米1 p7 b5 `; a" O3 z
房间中，温度多少？9 `0 G6 ~% v6 ]
环规直径为多少？* @/ g6 Z0 I& q7 L# _
, v) T) D; J' I
让我们正视它。3 um（0.003) 并不重要，如果机器的附近站立的1个人呼吸 真和明天5个人呼吸都能影响你的测量。 |
楼主: 吟啸徐行
发表于 2009-3-16 19:15:15
