This guy basically has no experience, and you guys are completely training him over the internet for free, and somewhat awkwardly I might add. / x9 f2 Y8 ?0 y9 C7 n8 v! U
% ^7 Y" _1 o9 [+ ]He started out with all kinds of monumentally stupid ideas about calibrating his machine himself, now we can easily see that he can't even properly operate a
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cmm talk about programming one.
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7 Q/ D( S$ v+ C# cI've sat buy and read a dozen threads started by him asking about ridiculously basic cmm concepts.
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Maybe I would be more receptive if he came in here from the start and said "hey guys, I know absolutely zero about cmm's, but I want to be just like + y/ o! m T$ ^6 a# v2 T& }
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you...can you help me? Where do I start?" But instead I find myself continually astounded by the questions he is asking. It is so compelling to read just so ' z4 g; n- A& D! M9 C" @( a
+ q# T% ^: f! e5 h/ Ythat I understand it fully when I get to the inevitable end of this story involving a major rejection and impending bankruptcy of some poor company he works 7 h0 z4 \( @1 c* F1 X8 W
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for.
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The only possible outcome I can see is the company he works for ending up in financial ruins as he "programs" a part and their setup adjusts the parts so
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, d& }) ?+ j3 l7 C- |that they "look good" on the cmm reports and they ship parts to customers, ultimately destined for rejection or worse failure during operation. I honestly 5 t) E/ F6 H( r5 {1 [. }$ Q# j `
2 O5 X3 X( r x" q, ?7 I: d: e& Jpray when I read his posts that he doesn't make something like steering or braking components, seat belt retractors.....the list goes on and on. ; i2 D* E! D) }; r
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这一个人基本上没有经验，而你们正在免费通过互联网完整培训他，我可能稍微增加点难度。
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他从自己校正他的机器的各种非常愚蠢的主意开始，现在我们容易看出他一个甚至不能正确操作cmm的人。 % ~: k( U8 {1 z3 @, u" L6 c
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我做出牺牲,阅读一堆章节并被他开始问各种荒谬最基本的cmm 观念。
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可能我应该更加接纳他刚进来就说:我基本对cmm了解为零,但是我成为你那样...你能帮助我吗?我从那里开始?但是我发现自己不停的被问的吃惊.我完全理解,当我得到这个故事必
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1 X( o; m$ }& N8 V! D- R) X9 S然的包括他工作的公司必然是非常容易被淘汰和即将发生倒闭7 }1 R3 L; |0 l
0 {, F$ v1 W' [* L" d我看他服务的公司最后的结果是财务破产作为他'程序'的一部分他们计划调整这部分以便他们在cmm报告中看起来好点.他们把这个给客户.最多被拒绝或者在使用中完全失败.当我, T* `1 w$ Z3 ^/ n3 R$ _- o1 i
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读他那职位的时候,我真诚的起到他不是做方向盘或者转向制动器,安全带....这个列表继续
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6 m l# y. L6 Q/ Z/ M8 _" n: f5 FI (like many of you) am a professional fault-finder by trade.
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Let's see if I can find any errors or problems with anything that Section has stated in his last post.
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Nope, can't find a single thing in error. I'd say that he's hit the nail squarely on the head.. q2 D8 ]/ `0 U {: y4 X. k' k% @
" o; i$ y! U. M7 K$ u/ U$ iIn fact, I've wondered several times in the past if this guy was really an experienced CMM geek who's just messin' with our heads, but I'm convinced that
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( z, W7 _7 o6 h0 }, \# x) N4 q+ Vhe's on the level, which is quite disturbing. His situation could be used as an excellent case study about why CMM geeks should ALL be certified - JUST LIKE 3 j0 h ] L$ H# A6 h; M
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THE MACHINES HAVE TO BE!!!!/ @, x5 `) J, y# C& @
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Analogy time: Why shouldn't it be good enough if a VEHICLE is inspected, registered and licensed? Why should the OPERATOR have be trained and licensed? The
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car's just fine, and that's the thing that does all the work! The operator just goes along for the ride, right? What could possibly go wrong?
4 u. d+ h) M7 z: q我(象你们中很多人一样）是一个经过专门培训对质量吹毛求疵的专业人士。 0 j$ |. T5 }, r2 _' m* l# W1 t
如果我能找任何的错误或的问题任何事，让我们见到那一个区段已经在他的最后职位中陈述。: Z; i7 h ?/ d! h7 d# G1 C
不，不能在错误中找一些线索。 我将会说，他脑子坏掉了。$ X- _ k+ h! k# W
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事实上,我在过去怀疑过很长时间这个家伙是不是真的是一个有经验的cmm怪人,他仅仅是打乱我们的思路,但是我确认他是一个卓越的人.这是不用讨论的,他的情况应该被当作一个
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优秀的学习案例:为什么鉴定为cmm怪人,就想机器一样3 x- N3 u4 I! _/ l; ]
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类似：如果一辆车辆已经被检查，登记以及许可，它为什么不是最佳状态？ 为什么那操作员应该被训练而且得到许可的？ 小车还好，所有的工作都一样！ 操作员仅仅是凑凑热闹6 r, T; Y% w' s- I p7 T L
8 P. c0 q; v1 H: U$ r，对不对？ 怎么会出错？
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hi,
4 a! ~1 ]6 Q! \4 E4 _/ F. S4 ki think you guys are fedup from me.i am really sorry for that.But appreciate the co-operation of you people.
2 l. [/ ~/ e7 F' o* LGoldenPine
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我认为，你们是从我这郁闷.我真的抱歉。但是还是感激帮助者。 / `- t" G0 v! m; w* T; l3 J
6 t: o2 v" C/ T% z" y( e) rmy machine is measuring a standard ring gage 3 microns less.is there any option in the metrolog to compensate it manually or i have to add up in the results
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/ t, P+ z- A# q3 Q' X. rat the end?
8 _9 G* o$ [( G5 r; c+ s我的机器测量一个标准环规小了3微米.是不是有选项去手动补偿或我不得不在最后把它加入到结果？ 0 I; U* \3 S& Y" e
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Is that 3um less than nominal, or 3um less than the calibrated result for the gauge ?2 b2 n: i( L$ [! n2 D
3微米是不是小于名义值，或3微米小于环规的校准结果？' T* ]/ q `2 }& w
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its the nominal.As its has been engrved on the standard for example 10 mm (+9 microns).cmm is reading it as 10.06 mm. 9 {+ |) t9 z- ` O% a
正常。如果已经被标定例如10mm（+9mm）。那么cmm 读数为10.06mm。 . t! M0 u5 D6 p8 i/ S
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10.06 is plus sixty microns. Six microns is .006.
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0 ~4 A, z9 H- M6 a' RPerhaps you meant 10.006?
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: {* I5 ^, Q/ B: n) JIs your cmm nc or manual? If it's manual, my advice would be to give up and buy a real cmm. If it's nc then make sure you have a program to calibrate the 2 g1 S$ l b& a2 d& J5 p$ o
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stylus. Make sure the measurements on the masterball are taken properly. Make sure the points are properly spaced and contacting the masterball at the
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optimal "attack angle".
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Once you have a program for probe calibration then you should do some testing. Calibrate the stylus and inspect the ring gage several times. Re-position the $ q/ @ R0 s; R( `
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ring gage between runs. You may want to re-clean it between runs but be careful not to affect the temperature. Then, repeat this whole process several times
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(including re-calibrating the stylus). If the variance you see here is more than .003mm (i expect it will be), then the 3 microns you are seeing is noise. If . F+ j5 |0 V& R( U# S$ w
" n4 J l L3 f5 d; T& j1 b. K) sit's more than .03mm then there's probably something wrong.
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If it's somewhere in between and you need better, if possible, try a shorter stylus. * ]/ o( a' G- [+ i C! c/ U7 S
2 D0 f) g) q1 R; N1 ]4 t' q( ^10.06是60个微米。六个微米是.006 。
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/ E \0 p: U3 R可能你认为是10.006?
% c$ c8 {: X6 t: a你的cmm是自动还是手动？ 如果它是手动，我的建议是放弃它同时再买台真正的cmm 。如果它是自动, 那么确信你有建议一个探针校正程序。 确定在标准球上的测量正确的。 确8 J( v# q# N! l2 [+ Y
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定点是以正确的位置和最佳的法线角度去接触标准球.
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8 c+ m; Y4 U$ W5 c一旦你有一个校准测头的程序,你应该做一些测试.校准探针和检查环规多次。测量中重新调整环规位置。在测量中你可能想重复调整它但是小心不要影响它的温度% }6 W( Y8 |- d- o" U" H" ?2 U
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然后，重复这整个程序多次（包括重复校准探针） 如果在这里你见到的差异超过.003mm(我预计它会）, 那么你看到的这3个微米是噪音。如果它是超过.03mm, 那么那些地方可能
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E4 I0 _: H) v2 p2 {2 e% K有错误。
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如果它处于中间，同时你想更要的效果.如果可能的，试一个较短的测针。
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/ W2 L+ R1 E; w RAgreed Ken,' G( ^9 y1 X7 \4 Q# U% e/ W" U
The biggest ball dia with the shortest shank length is always the way to go. A TP200 instead of a TP2 or 20 would reduce the lobing effect also, but I
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realise the choice is not always there. - l6 Z" ^9 n4 X& U; W7 u5 e2 A; Y
' G3 {, A) q2 Z/ P8 n$ n+ wI always set my alignment plane through the centerline of the ring ( cylinder measurement ) as , although these gauges are usually square from the cylinder - K2 P8 O! e& B* G1 {, u0 A1 X5 `
" S0 n' P: [' N7 g+ }# E/ A3 [( N6 mto the outer surfaces, you just never know for sure. # d& l; S3 Q {- e: l
2 L h/ t5 N; ^8 F2 Q* X' @5 qThe other matters to add up are,
0 ^- q& ?6 j# Q d4 ?the uncertainty of measurement of the machine : 6 q+ |) z; T: q+ R! u
the actual calibration result for the ring gauge ( not the engraved size ):
* i; b7 M3 ^- U6 k. B$ fthe algorithm used for the dia result :0 R* f6 v3 Y, X' C
room conditions ( temp humidity cleanliness ) :# |- ` D$ n, C) @
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Good luck G.P. in finding your 3 microns. They're in there somewhere. ) ]$ C# U# a6 x, j4 q" t
同意肯恩，7 g$ ?+ g1 u8 {+ b- S% @
这个方法最好是用最大的球茎和最短的探针长度。用TP200代替TP2或tp20会也减小效果，但是我认为问题并不在那里。 1 c9 d( H& M4 Y5 Q# u' d
9 |& V& @/ X% v% S7 t8 `8 w r我总是通过环规的中心设置我的基准面(测量圆柱),虽然这些环规从圆柱到外圆面是非常一致的,单你仅仅是不确
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其他因素加起来是，
1 L2 b) ?% @/ s; J5 X8 t+ X机器的测量的不确定： " S i# x3 k4 h# Z, M
环规实际的校准结果（不是被标的值）: ( u2 w6 a" F" n2 o- ?
结果圆的运算法则：
, \' Z" U0 c4 `房间环境（临时湿度） :5 y2 L/ Q2 e6 r4 C& e
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8 L- T9 ^! }( A0 tG.P找到的3微米误差就在里面,祝你幸运!
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Is it necessary to align a ring gage beofre the dia measurement.I have read somewhere that we dun need to make alignment for dia measurements.is it right? ( I/ y0 i5 P1 Z' w; M
( c1 ]: b" ?/ ^ j3 W在直径测量之前有必要定位环规。我已经某处读我们需要制造 对准直径测量.是吗？
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- h9 R. w6 z4 i) ^* e( [It's only my opinion G.P. , but if your trying to find your 3 microns,
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then use all means at your disposal to measure each point perpendicular to the surface. : b$ W# p! E" D, `! i8 W' \
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That includes aligning the ring gauge before measuring for dia.
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) f& q. p' |1 Y: d0 j8 M( L' \As a matter of interest, what size does the calibration certificate say the ring gauge is ?
% T6 e: `/ i" n! g% T8 c% ~6 Q它只是我个人的意见 G.P. ，如果你想尝试达到3个微米， ' r9 o6 x) m; Q
\2 M- ~) @4 V; S5 A i2 I/ e1 {使用所有的方法(尽力而为),在测量任意一个点都要垂直于表面。 ! X J& m; h1 N
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那包括在测量直径之前排校准环规。
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稍微有点好奇，环规校准报告说环规尺寸是所少？
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I would measure it as a cylinder. Set my coordinate to that cyl. & measure circles incrementally in the ring gage. " A) ]: i; y+ G4 J' a, M: M
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我会把它作为一个圆柱来测量。设定我的坐标系为圆柱坐标系同时在环规中逐渐提高测量圆
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You are chasing 3um error in a diameter measurement?!8 w5 ^0 p; z( O5 `
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What type of machine? Manual or CNC9 u8 A. V0 P/ ]2 l
What type of touch probe? TP20, TP2, SP25, TP200
1 x, k- s- P$ O0 ]+ e0 CWhat length is the stylus? 10mm 20mm 100mm7 P# L! N+ `1 y, m" [
What is the temperature in the room?
; Q! u+ Q2 c& l3 N( fWhat diameter is the ring gauge?+ a0 w0 E( A2 x
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Let's face it... 3um (0.003) is not a significant error, if you have 1 person standing near the machine breathing really heavy and the next day there are 5 ' ]+ I6 m1 M& n( d- O ~2 t
, k5 }& Q, f2 p; e9 k5 dpeople breathing heavy it can effect your measurement.
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你试图测量一个直径只有3微米的偏差？！" J7 C$ r; k0 A* C/ T( v8 P
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哪类机器？手动或自动& ]) P' X. s3 [
哪类探头？TP20,TP2,SP25, TP200; {! z2 ]0 O, Y* g4 ]7 U7 e8 y4 c& Z
探针长度为多少？ 20 毫米 10 毫米 100 毫米
4 F, P3 G R1 Y5 a: T, f房间中，温度多少？& R2 `' ?2 Y, a& m% d7 m9 K$ l
环规直径为多少？
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9 J, w8 o- H1 B6 `. w让我们正视它。3 um（0.003) 并不重要，如果机器的附近站立的1个人呼吸 真和明天5个人呼吸都能影响你的测量。 |
楼主: 吟啸徐行
楼主
发表于 2009-3-16 19:15:15
